Conversations with Myself by Nelson Mandela Read Free Book Online

RICHARD STENGEL
    STENGEL: During this time there was quite a lot of socializing, wasn’t there? You mentioned before, when you first came to Johannesburg, you were taken to parties, Communist Party parties, and you met Michael Harmel, 5 and there’s been a lot written about the mixing, in a social way, that was going on with Joe Slovo and Ruth First… 6
    MANDELA: No actually, it was not something extraordinary; just like anything that was happening in this country both amongst whites and blacks. The only difference is that here you had blacks and whites together.
    STENGEL: But that was extraordinary, wasn’t it?
    MANDELA:…That mixing was extraordinary, but the parties themselves were something that were very frequent in the country. Yes, it was not something novel. And it didn’t happen with such regularity. The point was that these groups were also used, certainly by the [Communist] Party, for the purpose of recruiting new members.
    STENGEL: I see…at least among whites, didn’t they feel that they were doing something that was very daring and exciting by having mixed parties like that?
    MANDELA: No, no, no, I don’t think so. Here were whites who were bred in the democratic tradition, in the proper sense of the word, who had committed themselves to the struggle by the oppressed people and therefore they wanted moments of relaxation and invited Africans, blacks.
    STENGEL: And you would go to these parties?
    MANDELA: Oh yes, yes. I was not a frequent [party goer]. In fact, at one time Joe complained to Walter [Sisulu] that ‘Man, Nelson doesn’t like parties.’
    7. CONVERSATION WITH RICHARD STENGEL
    MANDELA: I was being introduced to various strands of thought in Johannesburg.
    STENGEL: And when you went to the meetings you would just sit and listen?
    MANDELA:…I never spoke. The only thing I took part in was debates – not in political meetings but just academic debates. For example, there would be a team from Bloemfontein to Johannesburg; I would be invited to lead a discussion from Johannesburg. That I participated in, but in meetings I never did, until I joined the [ANC] Youth League. Even then I was very nervous. I was really very nervous.
    STENGEL: Nervous why? Because it was a big step, or it was dangerous?
    MANDELA:…I didn’t know politics, you see? I was backward politically and I was dealing with chaps, you see, who knew politics, who could discuss what was happening in South Africa and outside South Africa. Chaps, some of whom had only Standard Four, academically very humble educational qualifications, but they knew far more than I did…At Fort Hare [University] I did two [BA] courses in History where I went into South African history very deeply and European history. But what Gaur Radebe knew was far more than I did because he learned not only just the facts; 7 he was able to get behind the facts and explain to you the causes for a particular viewpoint. And I learned history afresh and I met a number of them. Of course people like Michael Harmel with MAs, you know, and Rusty Bernstein was [a] BA from Wits [University of the Witwatersrand], these chaps…were also very good in history and although I was not a [Communist] Party man, but …I listened to them very carefully. 8 It was very interesting to listen to them.
    STENGEL: When you first went to the Communist Party meetings…you were very anti-communist then?
    MANDELA: Yes quite, oh yes, oh yes.
    STENGEL: So when you were going to the meetings it didn’t make you sympathetic to the Communist Party?…
    MANDELA: No, no, no, no, no, no. I was just going there because I was invited and I was keen to see. It was a new society where you found Europeans, Indians and Coloureds and Africans together. Something new to me. Which I had never known. And I was interested in that.
    STENGEL: You were interested in being a social observer more than you were interested in the politics.
    MANDELA: Oh, no, no, no. I was not interested really in the politics. I